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	<title>Comments on: Experiences with the paranormal: Differentiating between spirituality and psychopathology</title>
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	<link>http://saynotostigma.com/2012/01/experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology</link>
	<description>a blog of The Menninger Clinic</description>
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		<title>By: Mary Tilney</title>
		<link>http://saynotostigma.com/2012/01/experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology/comment-page-1/#comment-2577</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Tilney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2012 10:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saynotostigma.com/?p=1512#comment-2577</guid>
		<description>I suffer from Bi-Polar and I seemed to have been pre-disposed to it genetically but it only really manifested itself in my late 30&#039;s after a complete breakdown because of an abusive situation, and too much responsibility.  It was a horrendus experience and I ranged from catatonic to hullucinations and everything in between.  However with correct medication and psychiatric care I recovered - over an extensive period of time - and finally arrived at a point where I was fully functional again. I made a complete change in the direction of my career, and built up a life for myself with financial security, and able to support my children spychologically and emotionally - two of whom also have been diagnosed with Bi-Polar. This was only because I had made a sensible decision to remove myself from the abusive situation which I was able to do because of cognitive counselling.  I have had two more &#039;wobbles&#039; but have essentially remained stable for over 30 years in spite of - sometimes very stressful - situations.  I was in a mental hospital or care facility during my illness where I observed many people with ideas about &#039;being touched by God&#039; and similar as what you described.   I, in fact had a similar experiences and it pre-empted by inital breakdown as I became part of a charismatic Church where my condition rapidly deteriorated as I was &#039;enabled&#039; to slip further and further into denial of reality and fantasitical ideas.  It was my escape from the reality of my abusive relationship.  Needless to say with the help of my psyhiatrist I finally had an AHA moment and identified these feelings and ideas with the onset of manic behaviour.  Looking back now - with my mind completely rational - I connect the dots between what I saw in the spychiatric wards and my own illness.  It took time to connect the dots in spite of the fact that I have studied psychology. Such &#039;spiritual&#039; experiences are often accompanied by doubt and the need to seek confirmation by seeking others who have had similar experiences, feelings of elation, and have a profound effect.  I am Agnostic now and although I will not challenge or redicule such experiences or people who experience them - I have on occasion suggested that they should have it analysed or confirmed by a psyhiatrist.  Some people did in fact follow up and thanked me as they had been bordering on what I know to be a very frightening experience of being manic.  I found the article fascinating and interesting.  I combined spychology with communication and did a Masters in Mass Comm, and especially because of my own personal experience I was enriched academically and able to teach University students about the media with a thorough understanding of interpretation of texts etc and the polysemic nature of messages.  I am trying to formulate a paper based on psycholical aspects and the interpretation of messages or something like.  The ideas are still in the embryo stage and your article is therefore incredibly useful. I am about to retire now and I stay away from church.  I am simply vulnerable to that kind of &#039;enabling&#039; and prefer staying rational and together.   I hope to read further articles on this subject written by you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suffer from Bi-Polar and I seemed to have been pre-disposed to it genetically but it only really manifested itself in my late 30&#8242;s after a complete breakdown because of an abusive situation, and too much responsibility.  It was a horrendus experience and I ranged from catatonic to hullucinations and everything in between.  However with correct medication and psychiatric care I recovered &#8211; over an extensive period of time &#8211; and finally arrived at a point where I was fully functional again. I made a complete change in the direction of my career, and built up a life for myself with financial security, and able to support my children spychologically and emotionally &#8211; two of whom also have been diagnosed with Bi-Polar. This was only because I had made a sensible decision to remove myself from the abusive situation which I was able to do because of cognitive counselling.  I have had two more &#8216;wobbles&#8217; but have essentially remained stable for over 30 years in spite of &#8211; sometimes very stressful &#8211; situations.  I was in a mental hospital or care facility during my illness where I observed many people with ideas about &#8216;being touched by God&#8217; and similar as what you described.   I, in fact had a similar experiences and it pre-empted by inital breakdown as I became part of a charismatic Church where my condition rapidly deteriorated as I was &#8216;enabled&#8217; to slip further and further into denial of reality and fantasitical ideas.  It was my escape from the reality of my abusive relationship.  Needless to say with the help of my psyhiatrist I finally had an AHA moment and identified these feelings and ideas with the onset of manic behaviour.  Looking back now &#8211; with my mind completely rational &#8211; I connect the dots between what I saw in the spychiatric wards and my own illness.  It took time to connect the dots in spite of the fact that I have studied psychology. Such &#8216;spiritual&#8217; experiences are often accompanied by doubt and the need to seek confirmation by seeking others who have had similar experiences, feelings of elation, and have a profound effect.  I am Agnostic now and although I will not challenge or redicule such experiences or people who experience them &#8211; I have on occasion suggested that they should have it analysed or confirmed by a psyhiatrist.  Some people did in fact follow up and thanked me as they had been bordering on what I know to be a very frightening experience of being manic.  I found the article fascinating and interesting.  I combined spychology with communication and did a Masters in Mass Comm, and especially because of my own personal experience I was enriched academically and able to teach University students about the media with a thorough understanding of interpretation of texts etc and the polysemic nature of messages.  I am trying to formulate a paper based on psycholical aspects and the interpretation of messages or something like.  The ideas are still in the embryo stage and your article is therefore incredibly useful. I am about to retire now and I stay away from church.  I am simply vulnerable to that kind of &#8216;enabling&#8217; and prefer staying rational and together.   I hope to read further articles on this subject written by you.</p>
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		<title>By: Walker Ogden</title>
		<link>http://saynotostigma.com/2012/01/experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology/comment-page-1/#comment-2069</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker Ogden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saynotostigma.com/?p=1512#comment-2069</guid>
		<description>Excellent apprasial of these events.  Having always had an interest in this arena I seriously considered graduate school in parapsychology under J. B. Rhine at Duke in the 60&#039;s. Does experience or interest in the paranormal make one &quot;crazy&quot;? Having had a supernatural experience, neither solicited nor invited, I have to answer a definitive &quot;NO&quot;! 
Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent apprasial of these events.  Having always had an interest in this arena I seriously considered graduate school in parapsychology under J. B. Rhine at Duke in the 60&#8242;s. Does experience or interest in the paranormal make one &#8220;crazy&#8221;? Having had a supernatural experience, neither solicited nor invited, I have to answer a definitive &#8220;NO&#8221;!<br />
Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanne</title>
		<link>http://saynotostigma.com/2012/01/experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology/comment-page-1/#comment-1513</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saynotostigma.com/?p=1512#comment-1513</guid>
		<description>I read your article with interest, I have often wondered about the difference between feeling that you have a spiritual connection and a feeling that you might be going ever so slightly mad or crazy

Up until last year I thought perhaps that the inner voice within me I seemed to have since I was a kid, was a sign of madness, but since I led a reasonably ordinary life, married, kids, career, I just ignored it. It wasn&#039;t like I was hearing voices or anything, there just seemed to be something within me that was &quot;knowing&quot; of things that I shouldn&#039;t really know. So last year I started writing, writing automatically, without any real conciousness and the result has been most interesting. 

Maybe I am a fantasist as the previous comment suggests as my writing is an alternative to the reality that I endure in my life. The only thing I do know that what I write is very insightful, beautiful and many people have said that the things I write have helped them understand their own spirituality. So who the heck knows, I think I have stopped worrying where the writing comes from and I just write everything down on www.discoveringmylight.com.

I have to say, that I don&#039;t think I do have a psychiatric illness but I can see how in some instances it would be difficult to see a dividing line between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read your article with interest, I have often wondered about the difference between feeling that you have a spiritual connection and a feeling that you might be going ever so slightly mad or crazy</p>
<p>Up until last year I thought perhaps that the inner voice within me I seemed to have since I was a kid, was a sign of madness, but since I led a reasonably ordinary life, married, kids, career, I just ignored it. It wasn&#8217;t like I was hearing voices or anything, there just seemed to be something within me that was &#8220;knowing&#8221; of things that I shouldn&#8217;t really know. So last year I started writing, writing automatically, without any real conciousness and the result has been most interesting. </p>
<p>Maybe I am a fantasist as the previous comment suggests as my writing is an alternative to the reality that I endure in my life. The only thing I do know that what I write is very insightful, beautiful and many people have said that the things I write have helped them understand their own spirituality. So who the heck knows, I think I have stopped worrying where the writing comes from and I just write everything down on <a href="http://www.discoveringmylight.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.discoveringmylight.com</a>.</p>
<p>I have to say, that I don&#8217;t think I do have a psychiatric illness but I can see how in some instances it would be difficult to see a dividing line between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: roger verdon</title>
		<link>http://saynotostigma.com/2012/01/experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology/comment-page-1/#comment-1508</link>
		<dc:creator>roger verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saynotostigma.com/?p=1512#comment-1508</guid>
		<description>A really interesting and well-written post. A truly smart and provocative piece.Thank you Heather. 

When I was 6-7 years old I saw my grandmother&#039;s image in a mirror a few days after she died. She was a fiery Irish immigrant who only yelled at adults, who quaked as she walked the earth,which endeared her to me. I&#039;m not sure what Freud would say about that experience, but I can imagine. I know how unreasonable that experience sounds, but I cling to it still, not as a fantasy or as an &quot;as if,&quot; but as an actual event in which I participated. Does this feeling sketch me as someone disturbed? I hope not.

I have kept that memory in my head for many years and find it fascinating as well as comforting, perhaps because it offered some connection to the afterlife, actually the only glmpse of the place I have ever experienced.  I am aware these are the sorts of observations that get people branded as strange, but we have them anyway. Pilots don&#039;t discuss UFOs for fear of being grounded, yet they see all sorts of unidentified stuff.

Since i don&#039;t fly planes I can admit that I saw a UFO once and watched it for a half hour at least while I waited for a night college class. I was in my car eating dinner and I was convinced this thing in the sky that was getting brighter and brighter was some space anomaly. As it got darker, the light got brighter and I realized the light was from the school behind me reflecting through a window. Had I not figured that out you would be now reading about my &quot;true&quot; UFO experience. 

I think spirituality is a corruption of common sense that fulfills some personal need. The more skeptical among us seem to require less spirituality, although we all have our own versions of magical thinking that might be a substitute for spirituality.

These are all worthwhile subjects to ponder. Menninger alums Drs. Glen Gabbard and Stuart Twemlow once co-wrote a book about near-death experiences. That is quite a validation of the subject&#039;s merit.

One of my favorite books is One Hundred Years of Solitude, in which great amounts of magical thinking occurs. I find such stuff refreshing and full of joy. I would love to experience a speaking owl or a man who can change water into wine or be able to decipher those strange clouds, which are nothing more than messages from the universe. They are, aren&#039;t they?

A fantasist enjoys the creative exercise as an alternative to the reality that we generally endure. There are abuses, and for those folks whose fantasies are harmful to themselves, they obviously need help and guidance. The rest of us use fantasy as a coping mechanism. They hurt no one, except one&#039;s reputation when judged an eccentric, a character flaw I feel ought to be embraced and indulged. 

Eccentrics simply want to be remembered and perhaps seen once or twice in a mirror after they&#039;ve left this &quot;mortal coil,&quot; a Shakespearian phrase from Hamlet that I&#039;ve never understood but always appreciated. Sort of like the healthy practice of spirituality, fantasy, magical thinking and the like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A really interesting and well-written post. A truly smart and provocative piece.Thank you Heather. </p>
<p>When I was 6-7 years old I saw my grandmother&#8217;s image in a mirror a few days after she died. She was a fiery Irish immigrant who only yelled at adults, who quaked as she walked the earth,which endeared her to me. I&#8217;m not sure what Freud would say about that experience, but I can imagine. I know how unreasonable that experience sounds, but I cling to it still, not as a fantasy or as an &#8220;as if,&#8221; but as an actual event in which I participated. Does this feeling sketch me as someone disturbed? I hope not.</p>
<p>I have kept that memory in my head for many years and find it fascinating as well as comforting, perhaps because it offered some connection to the afterlife, actually the only glmpse of the place I have ever experienced.  I am aware these are the sorts of observations that get people branded as strange, but we have them anyway. Pilots don&#8217;t discuss UFOs for fear of being grounded, yet they see all sorts of unidentified stuff.</p>
<p>Since i don&#8217;t fly planes I can admit that I saw a UFO once and watched it for a half hour at least while I waited for a night college class. I was in my car eating dinner and I was convinced this thing in the sky that was getting brighter and brighter was some space anomaly. As it got darker, the light got brighter and I realized the light was from the school behind me reflecting through a window. Had I not figured that out you would be now reading about my &#8220;true&#8221; UFO experience. </p>
<p>I think spirituality is a corruption of common sense that fulfills some personal need. The more skeptical among us seem to require less spirituality, although we all have our own versions of magical thinking that might be a substitute for spirituality.</p>
<p>These are all worthwhile subjects to ponder. Menninger alums Drs. Glen Gabbard and Stuart Twemlow once co-wrote a book about near-death experiences. That is quite a validation of the subject&#8217;s merit.</p>
<p>One of my favorite books is One Hundred Years of Solitude, in which great amounts of magical thinking occurs. I find such stuff refreshing and full of joy. I would love to experience a speaking owl or a man who can change water into wine or be able to decipher those strange clouds, which are nothing more than messages from the universe. They are, aren&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>A fantasist enjoys the creative exercise as an alternative to the reality that we generally endure. There are abuses, and for those folks whose fantasies are harmful to themselves, they obviously need help and guidance. The rest of us use fantasy as a coping mechanism. They hurt no one, except one&#8217;s reputation when judged an eccentric, a character flaw I feel ought to be embraced and indulged. </p>
<p>Eccentrics simply want to be remembered and perhaps seen once or twice in a mirror after they&#8217;ve left this &#8220;mortal coil,&#8221; a Shakespearian phrase from Hamlet that I&#8217;ve never understood but always appreciated. Sort of like the healthy practice of spirituality, fantasy, magical thinking and the like.</p>
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		<title>By: Prince Vladimir Leetoff</title>
		<link>http://saynotostigma.com/2012/01/experiences-with-the-paranormal-differentiating-between-spirituality-and-psychopathology/comment-page-1/#comment-1505</link>
		<dc:creator>Prince Vladimir Leetoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 01:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saynotostigma.com/?p=1512#comment-1505</guid>
		<description>Love it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it.</p>
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